Embassy of The Meritocracy

[Black Adder]

You're correct but there is a fair amount of information being transferred from one entity to another. The Meritocracy Intelligence service has a sharing of information with the ADN's companion service. While the Meritocracy as an entity may not act on this information it is available for others to look at who hold positions elsewhere.

It is here I see a defining line begin to blur. While the nation may not be responsible for its actions vis a vis no official Meritocratic action is in motion they are benefitting from its resources. This brings into play how the player views it puppets, obviously independant of the Meritocracy but they are being used as if they are members of it based on the information.

This is not the question I am asking. I am asking whether the Meritocracy views the ADMA strictly as a guideline for signing with the NPO and if so how do we expect this to be applied in the future? Even the Geneva Convention was used to prosecute War Crimes despite the nature of it.

[Cortath]

Firstly, it's funny that this should be discussed here, as the very same thing is being discussed at the Meritocracy. There are very serious and far-reaching discussions about the relationship between the player and non-Senate nations.

Let me say this:

Many Senators, who, outside of the Meritocracy, moved their nations in the Pacific are very upset that they did so. Virtually all of them moved their nations before anything was known or announced. After the tragedy was announced, most of them withdrew and were/are very regretful that they unknowingly took advantage of an RL situaton.

[Black Adder]

Firstly, it's funny that this should be discussed here, as the very same thing is being discussed at the Meritocracy. There are very serious and far-reaching discussions about the relationship between the player and non-Senate nations.

Really? I guess you would find it odd we're analyzing the relationship within the Met. We're rather used to being scrutinized and analyzed by other regions so I guess its rather standard fare for us. Many of us are very long term players here so it follows we're aware of the goings on in the Meritocracy. Many of us haven't chosen to become a part of it for our own reasons.

Many Senators, who, outside of the Meritocracy, moved their nations in the Pacific are very upset that they did so. Virtually all of them moved their nations before anything was known or announced. After the tragedy was announced, most of them withdrew and were/are very regretful that they unknowingly took advantage of an RL situaton.

I appreciate the sentiment. I'm somewhat encouraged this is a general feeling which honours the players that were Franco and Poskrebyshev. You'll forgive me if I'm a little angry that they are only regretting their activity based on the tragedy. I would have hoped given the communication between the Pacific and the Meritocracy we had progressed past this conflict somewhat. Whatever the case I am grateful you've taken the time to let us know how these individuals feel. For my part I'm thankful for their efforts to pull out when they did become aware and they have my gratitude. If they didn't know they shouldn't feel guilt, plenty of that going around for everyone that shouldn't feel it.

[Cortath]

Black said:

Really? I guess you would find it odd we're analyzing the relationship within the Met. We're rather used to being scrutinized and analyzed by other regions so I guess its rather standard fare for us. Many of us are very long term players here so it follows we're aware of the goings on in the Meritocracy. Many of us haven't chosen to become a part of it for our own reasons.

I mean that in no offense. Just that it's a coincidence that what we've been discussing is simultaneously being discussed at the Meritocracy. I certainly don't find it odd that we were being scrutinized, and I welcome it.

I appreciate the sentiment. I'm somewhat encouraged this is a general feeling which honours the players that were Franco and Poskrebyshev. You'll forgive me if I'm a little angry that they are only regretting their activity based on the tragedy. I would have hoped given the communication between the Pacific and the Meritocracy we had progressed past this conflict somewhat. Whatever the case I am grateful you've taken the time to let us know how these individuals feel. For my part I'm thankful for their efforts to pull out when they did become aware and they have my gratitude. If they didn't know they shouldn't feel guilt, plenty of that going around for everyone that shouldn't feel it.

I understand your feelings. I too am encourage by this. I do not expect relations between the Meritocracy and Pacific to change overnight, or in large steps, but this step is small and encouraging. I am very hesitant to reopen old wounds, but I believe that many members have few compunctions about action in the Pacific, when one considers prior infiltrations of the Meritocracy by the NPO. I would rather let bygones be bygones at this point, at least in terms of foreign policy, but even the Quaestor cannot order people to forget that an event occured.

[LadyRebels]

I have a saying in RL and also that I have said here in the VL world as well......

I am quick to anger,
I am quick to forgive,
I am quick to apologize when I am wrong,
But I don't forget.

It would be nice if we can get past all the dang BS and forgive what we saw as wrong, when it was in fact not truly wrong to start out with, and move on.

But then sometimes the miniority don't get heard, or their thoughts and actions get turned into something ugly.

Just a thought.

[Sir Paul]

I would rather let bygones be bygones at this point, at least in terms of foreign policy, but even the Quaestor cannot order people to forget that an event occured.

Remember that in the past, our world was different. We had our backs to the wall, and the only way we were staying alive amid the constant unendorsment campaigns and invasions was to know everything that happened. Because we were able to know when and where each incursion took place, we were able to defend against them. Every action the Pacific has taken has been in self-defense. We had no "subversive" intentions, but considering that "the summit" took place on Meritocratic soil, can you blame a Pacifican from wanting to take a look around? I'm not trying to justify the incident, but I would like you to understand it.

Considering the current climate, there is nothing that the Pacific wants more than Peace, and I welcome the steps that both orginizations are taking to achieve it.

EDIT: Wise words, MiLady. I hope we all can learn from them.

[Cortath]

Sir said:

Remember that in the past, our world was different. We had our backs to the wall, and the only way we were staying alive amid the constant unendorsment campaigns and invasions was to know everything that happened. Because we were able to know when and where each incursion took place, we were able to defend against them. Every action the Pacific has taken has been in self-defense. We had no "subversive" intentions, but considering that "the summit" took place on Meritocratic soil, can you blame a Pacifican from wanting to take a look around? I'm not trying to justify the incident, but I would like you to understand it.

Considering the current climate, there is nothing that the Pacific wants more than Peace, and I welcome the steps that both orginizations are taking to achieve it.

EDIT: Wise words, MiLady. I hope we all can learn from them.

I echo the sentiments of the Senator from Sir Paul. Fine words indeed, Lady.

I can sympathize with your predicament, but perhaps that lends a bit of understanding when the Meritocracy continually votes down for citizenship those people who have applied before without open arms. Indeed, there are several other, even less savory actions that have taken place, although not necessarily to the Meritocracy, that makes some of us pause in thought.

The Pacific wants peace, and so does the world. But, to speak frankly, peace only comes with the legitimacy granted by those governments you wish peace with, and that shall not be forthcoming in the forseeable future without change. I certainly don't pretend to speak for defenders, but I'd like to think I know their minds on this issue.

The Meritocracy wishes only for peace, and if we (the world) are not at peace, then something, somewhere, needs to change.

[Black Adder]

Legitimacy is ours. The reality is the NPO is here representing the Pacific and the standards our detractors use to question that legitimacy undermines their own claims.

Having personally dealt with opening the majority of relations with other regions I can tell you unequivocally we are met with enthusiasm and a general will to come to terms with us. Then what generally happens is the third parties come filtering in with their whispers. We spend more time correcting half truths than we do actually forging ahead with documents. We have actively sought peace, our detractors actively seek to derail those attempts. Those who do sign are branded unfairly. The East Pacific is regarded as a NPO province which it is not. It is an Allied Region. The League of the Pacifics was effectively destroyed due to outside interference.

The long and short of it is this, nothing will happen until the rest of the game reassesses what we are in relation to what they are. There isn't much difference. The difference being we were the first to use the methods and define them to use the power the game grants. Everyone else uses them without recrimination now but they do not have the constant assaults to deal with we do. Sarda gave the ADN Meritocracy Intel and was demonized for it, now its commonplace. The one who ventures first bears the punishment apparently.

So we now have a place where we are all standing looking at one another. Apparently the Met will view us with some distrust for some time as we do you (the Met). We are under the impression given your explanation that any agreement will be an uphill battle in the Meritocracy in an effort to be approved. What do you suggest? Rome wasn't built in a day but we all say we want the same thing so how do we get there? Whatever the Senate agrees to here is law. That's a given. What of the Meritocracy? We only see the representatives and cannot effectively represent ourselves to those who keep arguing against any contact with us. A third party hosted summit? We want peace and stability then we'll have to learn the same language, I don't see any other way of doing that unless we can discuss.

[SardaASSK]

Extremely well said Black Adder, I fully support every word of what you said, and I feel it is most certainly the case. The NPO is in fact slandered against by as you say, third parties, with no vested interest in the situation beyond hindering NPO efforts.

Sarda gave the ADN Meritocracy Intel and was demonized for it, now its commonplace. The one who ventures first bears the punishment apparently.

Other way around actually, I gave the Merit and ADN list of region crashers... lol, of all things And unless I'm mistaken even at that early juncture intelligence exchanges were nearing the beginnings of their current state of frequency.

[LadyRebels]

would there be any objections at all if I hosted some boards for a summit meeting?

I have no offical capacity, just a person that wants to see the end of all this, so please keep that in mind.

[Black Adder]

I would have no objections LR. I would have to consult with Comrade Unlimited and the rest of the Senate but I don't see an issue. It would largely depend on the Meritocracy whether they would come to your table.

[SardaASSK]

LR, I'm all for it if I can come ;D

[LadyRebels]

Well I was thinking some about it, it would involve

TNPO
TSP
TWP
TNP
ADN
TM
TEP

We need to get something out there that will bring out the talks and get things on a more open and friendly basis, at least that is what I am thinking, I would also like to involve the Realm of Crimology in this as well.

So if everyone would run it by who they need too, then if we get the ok I will create the boards and let everyone know the address.

[Neandertron]

Iwill ask to my government about this.

[Black Adder]

That's alot of regions and org's LR. Has all the potential of spiralling out of control. Maybe we shoot for the Met this time and expand it another time.