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A Shame
Nov 20, 2003 22:52:33 GMT -5
Post by Regmagen on Nov 20, 2003 22:52:33 GMT -5
I am, rather, I was an old nation. I was around when InfernoIce was delegate (before Olongapo). This nation was deleted for an unknown reason. And before you jump to conclusions I was not multi-ing. I was a main architect of the Pacific Army. Infact, when the army was created, I envisioned defending the Pacific and it's allies. I never thought we'd be waging a war against our homeland.
I see an even deeper problem. I see our army, I call it our army because we are still devoted to the Pacific, we are just in the middle of a disagreement. I see our army torn to shreds on the intellectual battlefield mainly because of errors in the English language. One thing that must be considered in this game is that to many players, English is a second language.
But it is my native tongue. I am not here to flame, I am not here to recruit. I am here to have an intellectual discussion. I am asking all detractors with an actual argument to come forth and debate with myself. I am also asking Francos Spain to allow intellectual discussion in his democratic forum.
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Sir Paul
Senator / Director of the Pacific Press
This is PNN
Posts: 617
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A Shame
Nov 20, 2003 23:04:55 GMT -5
Post by Sir Paul on Nov 20, 2003 23:04:55 GMT -5
What do you want to debate? The legitamacy of the NPO? The ejection of Nations? Free speach? I'm not quite sure why you are here. It's good to note that you come with an olive branch instead of spam, and Francos always welcomes an intelectual discusion on his boards.
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A Shame
Nov 20, 2003 23:07:35 GMT -5
Post by Regmagen on Nov 20, 2003 23:07:35 GMT -5
Mainly the conflict between the Pacific Army and The Pacific. How it came to be, what are the repercussions, the negative images of The Pacific and The Pacific Army between the two.
But if you have another topic, I would be glad to debate...that is if of course I have a different opinion of the matter.
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Sir Paul
Senator / Director of the Pacific Press
This is PNN
Posts: 617
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A Shame
Nov 20, 2003 23:11:37 GMT -5
Post by Sir Paul on Nov 20, 2003 23:11:37 GMT -5
There was a fallen empire, a newcomer, a power struggle, a victor, a mass cleansing, a civil code, and acceptance of the NPO in the pacific. Those that left wanted to reclaim their throne, and thus our current situation.
I view this like the Chinese rebellion. The old order was exiled to Taiwan (PA/RR) and the new order rules with a few more restrictions than the old. China and Taiwan are still fighting, and so will we.
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A Shame
Nov 21, 2003 13:46:16 GMT -5
Post by Abysseria on Nov 21, 2003 13:46:16 GMT -5
I view this debate as pointless. What angers me is that those outside the Pacific cannot accept the fact that the nations of the Pacific refuse to rise against Francos.
Why can't people accept that we like our region. If they spent as much time making their own region into something special, don't you think the pacific nations would go there of their own accord???
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A Shame
Nov 21, 2003 14:52:45 GMT -5
Post by Black Adder on Nov 21, 2003 14:52:45 GMT -5
I appreciate your bravery entering the Lions den Regmagen. We aren't as psychotic and mercenary as some would lead you to believe. We represent the New order in the Pacific, the old, elitist one was overthrown by Francos. Since then we have sustained unending attack by those in your organization of a disturbing nature. For whatever reason they cannot accept their clique is no longer and obsessively hurl themselves against the walls.
When I say obsessive I mean obsessive to a point where it is disturbing. Crazy girl by her own admission has over 150 puppets. Corinthe the last time I checked had over 68. This is not rational. While they may not be in the Pacific at the same time they do rotate in and out with no other purpose than to grief us. We are firm in our support of Francos therefore there can be no other reason since we aren't wanting to be converted. I liken it to Jehovah's Witnesses waking me up at 8 am on a Saturday. This is where our beef with your organization is. You have transformed from being a defensive arm to the Pacific into our most visible aggressor. Given its stance it was never intended to defend the Pacific, it was intended to defend Theodec and those who followed him. Francos gained the seat legitimately through endorsements, how is it the PA has not sworn allegiance to him? Because of the ejections? He is defending himself from those who unfairly seek to depose him for no other reason than the leader of their clique was unseated by the majority of his own people. Because of the laws we live under? It is directly due to the actions of your organization that we are forced to defend ourselves in such a fashion. We do not like living under the oppression nor the constant attacks, we do however support Francos and endure this as we take a dim view of your cohorts. To date, Francos has never had a chance to enable his vision for here free of interference from the PA. We would just like the griefing to stop. That's what it is, griefing. Francos is not the maniacal madman everyone makes him out to be and we'd like the chance to rebuild this place. Somehow I doubt the PA will allow that so, if its a fight they want we'll stand firm until we emerge victorious.
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A Shame
Nov 21, 2003 16:56:44 GMT -5
Post by Mars Sara on Nov 21, 2003 16:56:44 GMT -5
All I want to know is: why?
Why is the PA so adamently opposed to the NPO? I have no idea what you're motivated by (certainly anger at Francos ranks high on the list, but the core members must have a better reason), or why (if you are, in fact, aiming to take over) you would want all of this chaos, only to become inevitably villified by another group bidding for power. I don't understand why you cannot forge your own region in your ideas and leave the Pacific to those who have been placed in power by its people. What are you after here, and why does it have to be the removal of Francos that allows you to attain it?
What it boils down to is, why can't the Pacific Army be the defense force you envisioned? Why can't we just live in peace?
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Nov 21, 2003 17:09:40 GMT -5
Post by Tar A on Nov 21, 2003 17:09:40 GMT -5
Black, mars, those are some of the most sensible posts I've read in a long time.
Regmagen, you're absolutely right that the PA's purpose is to stand behind the Pacific, protect us, fight with us.
Delegate seats change all the time, and if a delegate does not have the backing of the people, he won't stay in. Your arguments over bannings and anger are only excuses in the end. It is a shame. I'd like to see the PA come back to what it was created for. (And yes, I was around when the PA was created as well).
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Sir Paul
Senator / Director of the Pacific Press
This is PNN
Posts: 617
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A Shame
Nov 21, 2003 20:25:27 GMT -5
Post by Sir Paul on Nov 21, 2003 20:25:27 GMT -5
I was there, too, and it was and still is a noble agency. Now, it is just misguided, as their loyalties are confused. As it stands, several nations are in exile, but perhaps a truce could be drawn. I have no authority to make a deal, but, hypothetically, if Francos deleted the ban list, and allowed everyone back in, would the PA abide by the civil code set forth by the NPO?
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A Shame
Nov 21, 2003 20:39:51 GMT -5
Post by Regmagen on Nov 21, 2003 20:39:51 GMT -5
All very valid points, except for Abysseria, you did exactly what I was trying to avoid.
As for a truce, that has been tried. At the beginning of the conflict, I contacted Francos in the hopes of settling the battle, he ejected that nation.
Is it possible?Yes. Is it likely?No. The civil code set forth was a reaction to the conflict, and any democracy would be squashed. Such is the consequences of martial law.
I hear of elitism and opression involving the PA. I did not see it. That could be of 2 reasons, it did not happen, or that I was part of the elite and did not see it. If the opression is in reference to the initial banning of Francos, then that is true. But it must be noted that Francos was immediately unbanned so as to avoid a "Nexterian" incident.
The reason the PA is so bitter, so hellbent is because the Pacific is our homeland. One day, it was taken away from us, we were outcasts. I'm speaking of the original Army, not the additions from the purges and such. I have always understood that delegates come and go, but what I resent personally is the clamp-down on the Pacific. That is why I fight.
I do not enjoy fighting, though. The only times I have entered battle (endorsement battles, not RP) is in defense of other regions. If there was a fair way to settle peacefully, I would sign on.
(Do not read into that too much, I do not represent the PA's policies)
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Nov 23, 2003 21:56:04 GMT -5
Post by Neo Dystopia on Nov 23, 2003 21:56:04 GMT -5
I second Regmagen. If a diplomatic arrangement can be agreed on between the opposing groups, it is preferable to open conflict.
My suggestion would be to hold a meeting between the leaders of the NPO and the leaders of the PA to attempt to find some common ground and reach some sort of compromise to end the bickering.
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Nov 23, 2003 22:56:03 GMT -5
Post by Tar A on Nov 23, 2003 22:56:03 GMT -5
It's been tried, actually. In fact, Francos offered to play Savage at chess with the delegacy of the Pacific at stake ;D
But all joking aside. I would like a diplomatic solution to all of this. But I just don't see it happening. Even if, and it's not likely, the leaders of the opposition settled something, we'd still have a thousand other nations against us. They're very proliferate and vocal. And, above all, unreasonable.
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Nov 24, 2003 2:10:54 GMT -5
Post by Black Adder on Nov 24, 2003 2:10:54 GMT -5
, we'd still have a thousand other nations against us. They're very proliferate and vocal. And, above all, unreasonable. More like a thousand puppets and 20 very obsessive people. In all seriousness you're right. We represent the sum total of some people's raison d'etre here. To abandon attacking here would seriously compromise their social schedule.
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Nov 24, 2003 10:33:24 GMT -5
Post by Abysseria on Nov 24, 2003 10:33:24 GMT -5
I appreciate this notion of debate and diplomacy. I am a peace loving nation, and I tire of this conflict, but the time for diplomacy has since long passed. The crude reality is that we should not compromise our position for the sake of those that attack us and villify Francos. I will gladly debate with any PA or RRA nation, but I will not compromise with them.
This conflict has degenerated, and not by our doing, into a personal attack against our delegate, Francos. Why should we compromise with those that do not wish to see him in power?
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A Shame
Nov 24, 2003 19:23:46 GMT -5
Post by Warrior Thorin on Nov 24, 2003 19:23:46 GMT -5
you are mistake we in the RRA would like nothing but to see this end if a diplomatic solution could be made i would be vere much in on it and i would hope to see that my brothers and sisters would too Prove it. You guys are always around here acting like an occupying force until Francos ousts you. You know nothing of diplomacy. You enjoy the fight too much. Otherwise, you would have come up with an amicable solution for the current situation in the Pacific. Our leadership is certainly intelligent enough to engage in the dialogue, but I am certain that the lack of intellect by your leadership (and if you are any indication of the brains of the PA or the RRA, I merely laugh) as well as its immaturity will be its demise, and it will never be able to sit at the negotiating table with our strong leaders. Why don't you think about that the next time your leaders want to invade our region. Go home and grow up and learn how to spell. Your posts give me a headache.
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