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Dissent
Mar 10, 2004 23:22:51 GMT -5
Post by Kandarin on Mar 10, 2004 23:22:51 GMT -5
As I'm sure you know, the Pacific's history is filled with disagreement over whoever is in charge, most particularly in the most recent administration. But there is simply too much propaganda and simplification being shot both ways. So, I ask you:
Of those who dislike FS, why exactly do you dislike him?
Of those who support him, what do you think of those who do not?
(Please, no "FS is a terrible despot who crushes his people" or "The wicked terrorists in the FF envy our great leader's achievements", respectively: I think we all know that neither propaganda statement is true)
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Unlimited
Senator / Pacific Surveyor of Foreign Threat
Vanguard of the Pacific Revolution
Posts: 694
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Dissent
Mar 10, 2004 23:24:56 GMT -5
Post by Unlimited on Mar 10, 2004 23:24:56 GMT -5
Why don't you start us off Kandarin?
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Wabu-Dhati
Liege
The power within each of you is wasted when kept amongst yourselves. Give it to us.
Posts: 47
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Dissent
Mar 11, 2004 2:03:35 GMT -5
Post by Wabu-Dhati on Mar 11, 2004 2:03:35 GMT -5
I support El Caudillo because he is El Caudillo. The leader. Dur Fuhrer. Il Duce. Etc.
The leader of any organisation deserves absolute and uncritical support.
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Dissent
Mar 11, 2004 10:06:29 GMT -5
Post by Abysseria on Mar 11, 2004 10:06:29 GMT -5
EDIT to actually answer the question (thanks, Nuns!)
I find that my trouble with anti-francos supporters is that they judge me for being a supporter of the NPO, before they even get to know my nation or what I believe in. I have been described in the past as a sycophant, a servile flatterer. I find that horribly insulting and while I support Francos, I find I do it for just reasons.
My problems also stem from the fact that many anti-francos supporters seem to operate on propaganda that remains from the tumultuous invasion period of the past.
In looking at our boards, so very few of those that are against us come here to post intelligent and respectful questions about our region. Yet, somehow, they still feel empowered enough to talk about our government as if they are intimate with those that serve the Pacific.
I simply wish they would judge us for who we are, not what they think we are.
The following is my original post which did NOT answer the question. Sorry, Kandarin, I misread what you wrote:
I have been asked this question many times by many people.
I support Francos because he is not what people claim him to be. He is not a tyrant. He is not a despot. He is not power hungry. He is not an illegal ruler. He is not a ban-happy delegate.
I support Francos because of what he is. He is just. He allows discourse and debate. He respects any nation that shows him respect. He permits us opportunities to share and grow with the Pacific. He is tolerant of those that rise against him, but protective of his people. He is a strong national leader. He has helped create peace and prosperity. He has led his people to believe in their region and in their government, and most importantly, he has taught nations how to feel pride in themselves.
Francos has allowed all pacific nations to have self-respect. We don't have to praise him, or hail him. We're not forced to worship him, or the NPO. Instead, we have found appreciation for the gifts he has given the Pacific and in turn show our gratefullness in thanks, in kind and supportive words, and in dedication to the NPO.
The government he has created is a body that will last long beyond our time here in this game. The NPO will always be with NationStates, and the name Francos will always be with the Pacific. His character has become the character of the region. Through the Senate, and all it stands for; through the Civil Code and its call for respect and responsibility; through our regional governorships and their ties to the people, and through the community we have created in the Pacific the NPO has become tied to the hearts of the people.
I live here because there is nowhere else in NationStates where all these traits can be found. I live here because this is a region and a community and a government that deserves hardworking and supportive people to serve. I live here because Francos Spain has developed a place that rewards kind, respectful, thoughtful people with peace, strength, and prosperity.
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Dissent
Mar 11, 2004 12:47:36 GMT -5
Post by Warrior Thorin on Mar 11, 2004 12:47:36 GMT -5
Well, I can't top what Abby said, but he really expresses my sentiments exactly.
Adding to that, Francos and the NPO allowed me to return and rebuild myself. I was unfortunate to have been on "the other side of the fence" at one time and I maintained a cordial dialogue with Francos and Bertram. They did not ridicule me, which is what I would have expected from a tyranny. Instead, they each took the time to explain what was wrong with my logic. I came to realize that the NPO was not an evil organization, but was an enlightened one. Francos had developed a vision that was going to be far more graceful than any in NationStates.
When you look at some of the other regions in the game, I think we don't see as enriching environments. I feel safe in the Pacific. I know that if someone does something improper, there are members and supporters of the NPO who take action to keep the Pacific clean and safe. The NPO has also provided a unique community that is fun and thriving. The nations here are genuinely happy with their Emperor and the Senate.
Now we are seeing the beginning of a new era of Francos' great leadership. The Senate has expanded, governors who are loyal to the NPO and the people of the Pacific are being appointed, and other regions are reaching out to try and understand the NPO. It certainly is a glorious time to be here, and I am ever grateful that Francos and the Senate permitted to come here, even after once being a member of a terrorist organization. I am eternally indebted to Francos and Bertram for their patient dialogue with me, and I am grateful to everyone here in the forum for becoming my friends. I could have never gotten this from any other place.
All Hail Francos! All Hail the NPO!
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Dissent
Mar 11, 2004 13:08:06 GMT -5
Post by Lactating Nuns on Mar 11, 2004 13:08:06 GMT -5
Of those who support him, what do you think of those who do not? While I agree with Aby & Thorin 100%, and admire their prose on this matter, they aren't actually answering Kandarin's question. So here's my take. What do I think of people who don't support Franco? I have no problem with them, generally speaking, in the same way I have no problem with anyone else who doesn't share my views on any topic. That said, I do have a problem with anti-Franco folks who judge me for supporting him, or who feel compelled to spread lies and distortions in order to bolster their point of view. That's playing dirty and being disrespectful. I have the utmost respect for anyone who can disagree with me intelligently and respectfully about the NPO (or about anything). Unfortunately, there haven't been too many of those around Nation States. I haven't yet encountered a single down-to-earth, unemotional, respectful critique of Franco. If and when that happens, I will sit up and listen, then offer my rebuttal in the same vein. This thread is a good opportunity for intelligent and respectful dialogue, even dissent.
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Dissent
Mar 11, 2004 14:16:57 GMT -5
Post by LadyRebels on Mar 11, 2004 14:16:57 GMT -5
I can not say the NPO as a whole is wrong, looking around I see things that are much as the South Pacific Region.
We talk, we debate and we have fun, all the same as here in the NPO.
I think the biggest difference I see is the fact that comparing the ban lists against each other's the South Pacific's is smaller. The reason is that we don't ban people unless there are rules and such followed, here honestly, it seems to be on the whim or, not so much whim, but the standands of Francos Spain.
I can't say I totally stand besides Francos Spain, forgiving is one thing, forgetting is another. But I can say that in the few dealing I have had with him on these boards and getting to meet some of the Citizens of these boards, I have a more netural stance about Francos Spain and the NPO as a whole.
(ok did that make sense?)
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Dissent
Mar 11, 2004 17:29:36 GMT -5
Post by mussolandia on Mar 11, 2004 17:29:36 GMT -5
I support Francos Spain because, even when I was new to the game and living in a very small, distant region of my own creation, news of his doings reached my shores. I used to check on the Pacific to see how things were doing and I thought that once my friends got bored of the game I would move into The Pacific, and so I did.
He has brought a stable, well organised government to this region and does let us all participate. When his government is regarded as dictatorial, I can only reply that his government is true to its principles. The two-faced Janus government in the North Pacific is abominable.
Other regions, such as the West Pacific or the South Pacific are not perhaps better or worse, they are different. A bit less fun (sorry Lady Rebels, but I feel it is true).
Just a little note, WabuDhati, Franco is certainly our Caudillo and Emperor, but I am Il Duce.
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Dissent
Mar 11, 2004 18:35:21 GMT -5
Post by LadyRebels on Mar 11, 2004 18:35:21 GMT -5
You only stated things as you see them, so why apologized for that? Thank you anyway. I look around here and I would like to say, that we do have a lot and shocking as that maybe for some, in common. More so than I, yep me, thought, but looking around I see it now. Oh if someone has SLR's email and keeps in contact with him, could you pass him word that the SP awarded him Best Spam for the SPAA awards. ;D Honestly if anyone is interested in going to the SP Boards feel free to, just means more parties, like we need a reason
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Dissent
Mar 11, 2004 20:11:20 GMT -5
Post by Tar A on Mar 11, 2004 20:11:20 GMT -5
Oh if someone has SLR's email and keeps in contact with him, could you pass him word that the SP awarded him Best Spam for the SPAA awards. ;D Hehheh... I will gladly do that, I was wanting to write him anyway. I don't know when he'll check it again, though.
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Dissent
Mar 12, 2004 1:00:12 GMT -5
Post by LadyRebels on Mar 12, 2004 1:00:12 GMT -5
Thank you Tar A, I do hope that he is alright.
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Dissent
Mar 14, 2004 2:21:00 GMT -5
Post by Tar A on Mar 14, 2004 2:21:00 GMT -5
Apparently he is still checking his email... he hasn't left the country yet and says to tell everyone "hi". (Such a boring message to pass on...)
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