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Post by Lactating Nuns on Mar 31, 2004 12:10:53 GMT -5
Thoroughout my life I have had to defend my religious beliefs against Atheists much more than against people of other beliefs. What I could extract from my discussions is that the Atheists I have encountered (again this is by no means a generalization and by no means at all an attack to our benevolent senator) is that they were usually patronizing towards me. They associated belief in God with a Child's amusement at a fairy tale. I found this extremely unintelligent. Completely agree, Mussolandia. I too have been made to feel naive or otherwise inferior for having faith. I think most atheists are happy to keep their beliefs to themselves, but there are some who are decidely 'religious' about their beliefs. I think in general, when you're talking about religious faith (even if it's a faith in the non-existence of god), it's a very personal issue and ties deeply into a person's identity and ego. It can be threatening when those beliefs are challenged, especially when those beliefs are used as a psychological defense for the uncertainty and insecurity of reality. Many atheists wield their beliefs in this way just as many religious folks do.
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Post by mussolandia on Mar 31, 2004 14:34:48 GMT -5
Comrade Abysseria, I have taken a look at the link you offered. Slavic people are usually very passionate in their belief. In my visit to to the church of Guadalupe in Mexico (a place where the Virgin Mary was revealed), I also found such fervor. I have stated before that I am a Roman Catholic and therefore believe in the holyness of the Virgin Mary. How did you come to know about this site in Croatia?
I see I am not the only person who holds religious belief in esteem and I am glad for it. It is generally the trend for advanced societies (mine obviously is not the case) to forget about the importance of spirituality. A pity, really.
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Post by Antigone Memorial on Mar 31, 2004 15:38:31 GMT -5
I fromthe UK, I state that becuase the religious situation over here is probably different from another countries.
I am an Atheist. It is my choice to be an Atheist, just like it is your choice to be a Jew, a Muslim, a Cathoilc or whatever religion you chose. I don't have a problem with it. Indeed, I have had many an enjoyable and above all, civilized debate with people of other religions over their beliefs. The only thing that gets me riled over religon really are some of the more....invasive....people involved. I mean people such as Jehovas Witnesses who come to my house over and over again. It not only winds me that they never take 'no' for an answer, but also, I find it terribly annoying that they are coming to MY home repeatedly. It may be irrational, but it really gets on my nerves, along with the people we get downtown who (and I'm not exagerrating this) had out leaflets and try and corner you to bend your ears about their religion. My philosophy is 'Do what you want as long it doesn't affect me'. By coming to my house or cornering me, it is crossing my line in the sand and then I have a problem.
Um....I think I've kind of rambled on about not much here, so I'll end it. I hope you get my point I'm trying to make!
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Post by EL CID on Apr 2, 2004 9:03:01 GMT -5
I found the movie to be disturbing and somewhat realistic at the same time. I say somewhat because the amount of blood shown before the cross is almost too much for anyone to lose and live(we have about 8 pints of blood That's a gallon) Lose 1/4 to 1/2 and you die from shock.
We also know historically that the Romans ceased their scourging at 39 as more than thatwould probably kill. As they were counting in latin it was hard to keep up but I believe they got into the 50's and then started over again from 1.
That said. I would recommend that anyone who goes make time afterwards to talk about it.
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Post by Abysseria on Apr 2, 2004 11:21:28 GMT -5
Comrade Abysseria, I have taken a look at the link you offered. Slavic people are usually very passionate in their belief. In my visit to to the church of Guadalupe in Mexico (a place where the Virgin Mary was revealed), I also found such fervor. I have stated before that I am a Roman Catholic and therefore believe in the holyness of the Virgin Mary. How did you come to know about this site in Croatia? I see I am not the only person who holds religious belief in esteem and I am glad for it. It is generally the trend for advanced societies (mine obviously is not the case) to forget about the importance of spirituality. A pity, really. The site in Coratia is a popular one for westerners to visit in pilgrimage. It is one that the church has not yet commented on, due to conflicts with the local bishop, but we are encouraged to go if we attend Mass, confession, and receive the Eucharist. It is a powerful place, and I don't know about you, but the ten secrets promised us scare me to death.
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Post by DragonsFyre on Apr 4, 2004 0:35:07 GMT -5
I agree, comrade Mussolandia. I find myself defending my faith more from Atheists than those that practice a religion. I find that those who are religious, regardless of God or sect, are more tolerant of faith. Ineresting in that, as a atheist, I have had a similar problem with Christians. I have friends and acquintances in many faiths, e.g. Sikh, Muslim, Buddist, Taoist, Aboriginal Canadian and various Christian sects. Discussions of faith/lack thereof with most are civil and respectful. With many Christians however, the discussion almost instantly devolves into condescension and derision. Worse, once it is known that I don't have faith nor belief in gods, I become an open target for repeated prosletyzation, usually delivering the same non-arguments repeatedly in the same "I-told-you-so" tone with the same smug "I-showed-you" attitude. Needless to say, it wore thin long ago.
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Post by Black Adder on Apr 4, 2004 10:23:03 GMT -5
Ineresting in that, as a atheist, I have had a similar problem with Christians. I have friends and acquintances in many faiths, e.g. Sikh, Muslim, Buddist, Taoist, Aboriginal Canadian and various Christian sects. Discussions of faith/lack thereof with most are civil and respectful. With many Christians however, the discussion almost instantly devolves into condescension and derision. Worse, once it is known that I don't have faith nor belief in gods, I become an open target for repeated prosletyzation, usually delivering the same non-arguments repeatedly in the same "I-told-you-so" tone with the same smug "I-showed-you" attitude. Needless to say, it wore thin long ago. That's something I noticed a long time ago in online forums. The two groups who clashed the hardest were the Christians and the Athiests. I don't know why, perhaps because the underlying credo of Christianity is to go and be 'Fishers of Men' and the Athiest must vigorously defend themselves from an unpopular view of believing in no supreme power. Much as the original Monotheists did when they were confronted by the reality of a world dominated by Pantheists. Whatever the case its unfortunate and does neither side good PR to clash in an ugly fashion.
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Post by mussolandia on Apr 4, 2004 12:15:45 GMT -5
First of all, DragonsFyre, I must clear up a misinterpretation of the word "sect". Most Christians in the World are not members of "sects", but of churches. Needless to say we Catholics are the largest church (no harm intended to the heathen, he he!). The word "sect" has negative connotations which I am sure you did not intend to portray.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of very childish Christians. I respect Atheism as long as, as I quoted before, they don't express disdain for my beliefs.
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Post by Dark Citadel on Apr 4, 2004 13:23:29 GMT -5
Yeah, I am Catholic but I feel that people can be part of whatever they believe in(or don't believe in)
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Post by Abysseria on Apr 5, 2004 9:21:59 GMT -5
Ineresting in that, as a atheist, I have had a similar problem with Christians. I have friends and acquintances in many faiths, e.g. Sikh, Muslim, Buddist, Taoist, Aboriginal Canadian and various Christian sects. Discussions of faith/lack thereof with most are civil and respectful. With many Christians however, the discussion almost instantly devolves into condescension and derision. Worse, once it is known that I don't have faith nor belief in gods, I become an open target for repeated prosletyzation, usually delivering the same non-arguments repeatedly in the same "I-told-you-so" tone with the same smug "I-showed-you" attitude. Needless to say, it wore thin long ago. I can imagine. Real conversion takes place because of an inner desire sparked by the observation of someone else's behavior. Real evangelization (whew, bad spelling), takes place through your behavior. A real Christian does not bash people over the head with a bible, but instead lives the teachings in a way that inspires. I'm sorry that you've had to deal with such arrogance.
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